This was an excellent write up and mirrors a lot of my own thoughts on the case. Specifically the part where you say that all the things that happened to her could’ve been done by a child. I think anyone who hears about the case from the first time, can note the absurdity in all the things that happened that night and how juvenile and unserious it all seemed to be. Right down to pineapples and milk being had for a snack (I’ve never heard of ANYONE making this for themselves, and it sounds childish by its very nature).
The one question I continue to have is why do they keep speaking? It is frustrating to hear this family lie time and time again. The disservice they do to their daughter’s memory is beyond comprehension. And why lie about certain aspects of the case? Like Burke being asleep, or whether her shirt was red or white.
They were affluent people in an affluent community, and therefore were afforded a high level of trust when it came to the crime scene. Police never thought this affluent family who was involved in the community would have anything to hide, and thus they got away with a lot concerning the crime scene.
I think at this point, certain parties want to maintain the idea of innocence for the family, because it makes the police work look horrible by association as well. It makes them look bumbling and unprofessional.
At this point, I wish we’d move past trying to ask the Ramsey’s questions. They will never tell us the truth. Why they keep agreeing to interviews is another question entirely.
I don’t know how he can believe this though. Nearly anyone I’ve ever spoken to about this case (and this case is about 5 years older than me) has always said the family is suspect and continues to be suspect. I even remember South Park making fun of them!
They aren’t expert liars or something, they just keep shooting themselves in the foot and end up looking more suspect in the process. I wish they’d just go for the “no comment” route, so they could at least maintain some dignity.
haha, some people who believe it was Patsy/Burke and John got forced into the cover-up think he's dying and doesn't give a shit about protecting Burke anymore and is hoping people look into it and get the grand jury files released
I think Jon gets some kind of thrill out of evading the authorities and he likes playing the victim. It's also negative attention and he may like attention. I think he likes to flaunt himself in front of the country and secretly is delighted he has evaded justice for so long. I don't think the man is capable of genuine affection for anyone. His image is what matters. He may eventually let the truth be told, but I doubt it. Burke, however, may eventually let it all slip if he gets sloppy enough someday.
This was such a good read. I'm so glad I took the time to take in ALL OF IT. I've made sure to send a link to everyone I know that's been interested in the case. It's the most compelling piece I've digested about the case in years and is the perfect thing to wash down the slop that was the Netflix doc.
No, seriously, thank you. I'm the same in that I consume True Crime through the 20/20s, Datelines and podcasts and will occasionally check out these docs on streaming, but I've been so tired of these uninformative, dragged out, biased True Crime series we've been getting on them recently. So it was truly refreshing to read something so concise and laid out that answered so many questions I've had for years and even new questions that arised after watching the series.
Since sharing your piece, I've even had some people ask if they should still watch the series or read your work instead. I recommended that if they're interested in the case, it's still a good idea to watch the Netflix series and then read your piece, just so you can better understand why the story they're pushing is BS even more. I've always been a BDI person, but it's been impossible for me to properly explain it to people who aren't as familiar with the case and think the theory is ludicrous, so I'm very glad to direct anyone to this now.
Also, I saw your tweet about maybe making a Tiktok/YT video. I agree, it would be a good idea to get it in some sort of video format. You presented your theory in a very compelling and digestible way that I think many people would be interested in hearing/seeing.
i never thought it was the family until reading this and now i’m on team burke hit her in the head and didn’t know how bad it was and the parents (at least one of them) did the rest to cover it up and save the one child they could save. a few things though…
wetting the bed doesn’t automatically mean sexual abuse - its very common, but did no teachers or other adults or friends or the kids ever have any other concerns? pediatricians are kind of the last people who would know about most sexual abuse bc they only talk to kids with their parents in the room. i think the leap to john was SA’ing them both and patsy knew so he had to kill her is reaching. i could see the paintbrush being part of the staging, to give the killer/kidnapper motive.
patsy being in full makeup and her clothes from the night the night before is sus af. she went to bed at ten without having packed the whole family for a vacation and then woke up and put on a full face of makeup before turning on the coffee? absolutely no way. that’s the least plausible part of the whole story.
So many details I didn’t know, wow. The theory about an attempt to use a suitcase to remove the body and leave the note that then didn’t work out explains A LOT.
Apart from being RDI I had never done a *deep deep* dive on this and so I never took BDI theories seriously. Now I'm sure this is what happened. Thanks for the excellent read!!
Just got into this case from the netflix doc, and went online to find out more only to realize just how much was left out of the doc! Honestly such a great article and really makes me shift my thoughts on who did it.
I think your theory makes total sense. I was on the Burke did it but the family covered it up train after the CBS doco, then this Netflix one swayed me until I started talking with my partner about it and he mentioned this post (thank you! This is so well put together!). The only question I have about your theory though is that if Burke got the pineapple snack himself while everyone else was asleep, why wasn’t his fingerprints on the bowl? Wasn’t it only Patsy’s fingerprints?
As a mom I’m sure Patsy’s finger prints were on the bowl b/c she probably unloaded it from the dishwasher or at some point grabbed it because someone wanted something and then changed their mind. But I agree- it is SO obvious to me that Burke prepared that bowl himself & Patsy had no idea (or she would have cleaned it up). Was this in a different kitchen than the main kitchen? I know it mentioned there was a Butler’s kitchen and then a main kitchen, I’m wondering if they used one more casually and why she didn’t see and clean up the bowl before the cops showed up.
The Netflix doc convinced me it was John Mark Karr until I looked up the evidence surrounding him and re-read the pineapple evidence that had me believe it was Burke before. I don’t understand how any journalist could leave this out of the documentary or be okay with producing misleading content for the sake of profit.
It’s interesting to hear about the family friend, the suitcase and the open/closed window - he must have some choice words to say about John surely?
Do you know whether the photo of the embedded garrote in the Netflix doc was real? I can’t help but think Burke couldn’t have tightened it like that and can’t see why the parents would have added this after the head blow either.
The Netflix doc also said the autopsy suggested skull fracture and asphyxiation happened close to simultaneously but everywhere else I read the head blow happened first - do you know why this is?
I just can’t help but think how scared JonBenet must have been in that basement :(
I hope some good comes of the documentary and it progresses to finding who did this to her.
the head blow happened first and 45 minutes to 2 hours later someone strangled her according to the coroner. grand jury members said the amount of time between the blow to the head and the strangulation was way too suspect to be an intruder. it made them think it was two separate incidents (burke, then parents). The Ramseys need to say it's "unclear" which happened when so they look less suspect
This is contrary to Dr Wecht. His findings were that the ligature strangulation had begun, then the skull fracture (massive fracture that should have produced a whole lot of blood, but only 1.5 teaspoons were found) due to the loss of blood pressure - she was very close to death at that point.
I don’t necessarily believe his JDI theory - however the explanation about the birefringent material he attributes to talc-commonly associated in the forensics field as a glove. I don’t know the origin of the paintbrush theory - which is accurate also…but no fingerprints on the ransom letter and bleach blond hair?? Needs gloves…
According to Arndt depo when she was suing BPD…she said that the body of JonBenet was covered in the living room next to the Christmas tree and Pasty embraced JB lower half of body only. Context from team Ramsey about PR fibers found in ligature, attributed to that embrace accounting PR fibers found on/in ligature. But according to Arndt, that embrace did not include the upper torso of JB.
I’ll stop… yikes.
Great post!!! Found you through JBTodey. Cheers and thank you
I just happened on this post through the algorithm, and this is one of those cases I'd never paid attention to. I'm still reading, but i'm going like "holy shit" every few minutes.
I am impressed by all your research. Thanks for compiling it and providing links. I just spent a couple hours devouring your article and reading through the comments.
I am wondering now what your thoughts are on Gary Oliva. What you think about the SA incident that occurred I think 9 months after JBR murder not far from her house to a fellow dance classmate.
I also am wondering what you think about DA Mary Lace “clearing” the family with an apologetic note in 2008.
Thanks so much for your work!! Like I said, I sat down and spent a couple hours absorbing it!
-Gary Oliva has been cleared by BPD. It seems he has an alibi and wasn't a DNA match. I think if they had anything to bring him in, they would've
-The other SA incident just feels too different. The girl was older. The MO was different, didn't include weapons and there was actual evidence of a breaking and entering. Also they took lessons at the same dance studio but at different periods of time. they wouldn't have been in the same class because of their ages. It's just odd that someone would go from failed kidnapping that escalated into murder to a failed kidnapping that let the girl remain alive. it was after JBR, if it was the same person, they'd be even more careful.
-I think DA Lace was forced to do that because of the Ramseys' remaining legal and political power. The PD and previous DA have all said it means nothing. We also know that the "unmatched DNA" does include Burke and Patsy's DNA and Patsy's clothing fibers were found on the tape. I think the family pushed for that because they knew this information (or the grand jury indictment) would come out eventually and wanted cover.
Wow, this is so impressive. I did not even know most of these details until today and have not researched this crime and yet I have been team BDI for a long time. Initially I suspected Patsy because of her coldness, but over time I realized it was likely the son and that they covered it up. I had no specifics as to why I thought this except that he likely had strong feelings about JBR getting so much attention. But now i see there was more to it. The whole thing is so sad and so angering. The rich get away with everything.
This was an excellent read. This case always intrigued me. I was 10 when JBR died and always thought how her parents behaved was strange. I noticed language they use often referring to her as that child or trying hard to actually cry when speaking about what happened. The Netflix doc is absolutely a setup to protect Burke for years to come. If I didn’t always end up in a rabbit hole looking at evidence every time I see something JBR related, they could have swayed me.
I agree that either Burke struck JB, and her parents did the rest to cover it up, or he struck, strangled and used the paintbrush and the parents protected him. I love that you touch on possible SA happening to Burke and JonBenet by someone in the family. I’ve thought the same, we automatically assume John, but I don’t rule out Patsy, especially to Burke. Or possibly both one way or another. Do you have any thoughts about North Fox Island, John’s grandfather supervising the airstrip? I know some people believe there could be a family connection with trafficking and child abuse that dates back.
*Note, I edited this on 11/29 at 9:57pm PST to add more links if you read it before that!
This was an excellent write up and mirrors a lot of my own thoughts on the case. Specifically the part where you say that all the things that happened to her could’ve been done by a child. I think anyone who hears about the case from the first time, can note the absurdity in all the things that happened that night and how juvenile and unserious it all seemed to be. Right down to pineapples and milk being had for a snack (I’ve never heard of ANYONE making this for themselves, and it sounds childish by its very nature).
The one question I continue to have is why do they keep speaking? It is frustrating to hear this family lie time and time again. The disservice they do to their daughter’s memory is beyond comprehension. And why lie about certain aspects of the case? Like Burke being asleep, or whether her shirt was red or white.
They were affluent people in an affluent community, and therefore were afforded a high level of trust when it came to the crime scene. Police never thought this affluent family who was involved in the community would have anything to hide, and thus they got away with a lot concerning the crime scene.
I think at this point, certain parties want to maintain the idea of innocence for the family, because it makes the police work look horrible by association as well. It makes them look bumbling and unprofessional.
At this point, I wish we’d move past trying to ask the Ramsey’s questions. They will never tell us the truth. Why they keep agreeing to interviews is another question entirely.
I think they genuinely think money and PR can control the narrative. John is dying and hopes a Netflix doc will protect Burke from the grave
I don’t know how he can believe this though. Nearly anyone I’ve ever spoken to about this case (and this case is about 5 years older than me) has always said the family is suspect and continues to be suspect. I even remember South Park making fun of them!
They aren’t expert liars or something, they just keep shooting themselves in the foot and end up looking more suspect in the process. I wish they’d just go for the “no comment” route, so they could at least maintain some dignity.
haha, some people who believe it was Patsy/Burke and John got forced into the cover-up think he's dying and doesn't give a shit about protecting Burke anymore and is hoping people look into it and get the grand jury files released
I think Jon gets some kind of thrill out of evading the authorities and he likes playing the victim. It's also negative attention and he may like attention. I think he likes to flaunt himself in front of the country and secretly is delighted he has evaded justice for so long. I don't think the man is capable of genuine affection for anyone. His image is what matters. He may eventually let the truth be told, but I doubt it. Burke, however, may eventually let it all slip if he gets sloppy enough someday.
This was such a good read. I'm so glad I took the time to take in ALL OF IT. I've made sure to send a link to everyone I know that's been interested in the case. It's the most compelling piece I've digested about the case in years and is the perfect thing to wash down the slop that was the Netflix doc.
Thank you!!
No, seriously, thank you. I'm the same in that I consume True Crime through the 20/20s, Datelines and podcasts and will occasionally check out these docs on streaming, but I've been so tired of these uninformative, dragged out, biased True Crime series we've been getting on them recently. So it was truly refreshing to read something so concise and laid out that answered so many questions I've had for years and even new questions that arised after watching the series.
Since sharing your piece, I've even had some people ask if they should still watch the series or read your work instead. I recommended that if they're interested in the case, it's still a good idea to watch the Netflix series and then read your piece, just so you can better understand why the story they're pushing is BS even more. I've always been a BDI person, but it's been impossible for me to properly explain it to people who aren't as familiar with the case and think the theory is ludicrous, so I'm very glad to direct anyone to this now.
Also, I saw your tweet about maybe making a Tiktok/YT video. I agree, it would be a good idea to get it in some sort of video format. You presented your theory in a very compelling and digestible way that I think many people would be interested in hearing/seeing.
This was such a fascinating read! Someone needs to commission your documentary
Agreed!
wow i have never cared about this case before now. thank you for laying everything out so succinctly!
thank you!! a few updates to it just went live if you had any questions about the note, her room, the DNA, or Burke!
i never thought it was the family until reading this and now i’m on team burke hit her in the head and didn’t know how bad it was and the parents (at least one of them) did the rest to cover it up and save the one child they could save. a few things though…
wetting the bed doesn’t automatically mean sexual abuse - its very common, but did no teachers or other adults or friends or the kids ever have any other concerns? pediatricians are kind of the last people who would know about most sexual abuse bc they only talk to kids with their parents in the room. i think the leap to john was SA’ing them both and patsy knew so he had to kill her is reaching. i could see the paintbrush being part of the staging, to give the killer/kidnapper motive.
patsy being in full makeup and her clothes from the night the night before is sus af. she went to bed at ten without having packed the whole family for a vacation and then woke up and put on a full face of makeup before turning on the coffee? absolutely no way. that’s the least plausible part of the whole story.
OK so I am upgrading to paid based on this alone. Thank you for your service!!!!
So many details I didn’t know, wow. The theory about an attempt to use a suitcase to remove the body and leave the note that then didn’t work out explains A LOT.
Apart from being RDI I had never done a *deep deep* dive on this and so I never took BDI theories seriously. Now I'm sure this is what happened. Thanks for the excellent read!!
thanks for reading!!
Just got into this case from the netflix doc, and went online to find out more only to realize just how much was left out of the doc! Honestly such a great article and really makes me shift my thoughts on who did it.
Not sure we can believe someone's random theory online.
well it’s not a random theory. It’s the theory from DA Mary Lacy’s lead investigator from 2005-2006. read the article! that’s why there are citations!
I've read it all
I think your theory makes total sense. I was on the Burke did it but the family covered it up train after the CBS doco, then this Netflix one swayed me until I started talking with my partner about it and he mentioned this post (thank you! This is so well put together!). The only question I have about your theory though is that if Burke got the pineapple snack himself while everyone else was asleep, why wasn’t his fingerprints on the bowl? Wasn’t it only Patsy’s fingerprints?
burke and patsy's fingerprints were on the bowl. just burke on the glass.
As a mom I’m sure Patsy’s finger prints were on the bowl b/c she probably unloaded it from the dishwasher or at some point grabbed it because someone wanted something and then changed their mind. But I agree- it is SO obvious to me that Burke prepared that bowl himself & Patsy had no idea (or she would have cleaned it up). Was this in a different kitchen than the main kitchen? I know it mentioned there was a Butler’s kitchen and then a main kitchen, I’m wondering if they used one more casually and why she didn’t see and clean up the bowl before the cops showed up.
I agree with this. I don't think Patsy was around for the pineapple. The cover up starts later. the bowl was found on the dining table I believe.
The Netflix doc convinced me it was John Mark Karr until I looked up the evidence surrounding him and re-read the pineapple evidence that had me believe it was Burke before. I don’t understand how any journalist could leave this out of the documentary or be okay with producing misleading content for the sake of profit.
It’s interesting to hear about the family friend, the suitcase and the open/closed window - he must have some choice words to say about John surely?
Do you know whether the photo of the embedded garrote in the Netflix doc was real? I can’t help but think Burke couldn’t have tightened it like that and can’t see why the parents would have added this after the head blow either.
The Netflix doc also said the autopsy suggested skull fracture and asphyxiation happened close to simultaneously but everywhere else I read the head blow happened first - do you know why this is?
I just can’t help but think how scared JonBenet must have been in that basement :(
I hope some good comes of the documentary and it progresses to finding who did this to her.
the head blow happened first and 45 minutes to 2 hours later someone strangled her according to the coroner. grand jury members said the amount of time between the blow to the head and the strangulation was way too suspect to be an intruder. it made them think it was two separate incidents (burke, then parents). The Ramseys need to say it's "unclear" which happened when so they look less suspect
This is contrary to Dr Wecht. His findings were that the ligature strangulation had begun, then the skull fracture (massive fracture that should have produced a whole lot of blood, but only 1.5 teaspoons were found) due to the loss of blood pressure - she was very close to death at that point.
I don’t necessarily believe his JDI theory - however the explanation about the birefringent material he attributes to talc-commonly associated in the forensics field as a glove. I don’t know the origin of the paintbrush theory - which is accurate also…but no fingerprints on the ransom letter and bleach blond hair?? Needs gloves…
According to Arndt depo when she was suing BPD…she said that the body of JonBenet was covered in the living room next to the Christmas tree and Pasty embraced JB lower half of body only. Context from team Ramsey about PR fibers found in ligature, attributed to that embrace accounting PR fibers found on/in ligature. But according to Arndt, that embrace did not include the upper torso of JB.
I’ll stop… yikes.
Great post!!! Found you through JBTodey. Cheers and thank you
i’m sure leaving out the burke theories were a condition of john’s for participating. whatever the truth is, he’s trying to protect burke.
the colorado cold case team opened a case on this in 2023 and im wondering if they're going to share something the ramseys want to get ahead of
I dont think I can add pics here, but I have the timeline, ill add it
I just happened on this post through the algorithm, and this is one of those cases I'd never paid attention to. I'm still reading, but i'm going like "holy shit" every few minutes.
You got me from zero to "burke did it".
I am impressed by all your research. Thanks for compiling it and providing links. I just spent a couple hours devouring your article and reading through the comments.
I am wondering now what your thoughts are on Gary Oliva. What you think about the SA incident that occurred I think 9 months after JBR murder not far from her house to a fellow dance classmate.
I also am wondering what you think about DA Mary Lace “clearing” the family with an apologetic note in 2008.
Thanks so much for your work!! Like I said, I sat down and spent a couple hours absorbing it!
Thank you!
-Gary Oliva has been cleared by BPD. It seems he has an alibi and wasn't a DNA match. I think if they had anything to bring him in, they would've
-The other SA incident just feels too different. The girl was older. The MO was different, didn't include weapons and there was actual evidence of a breaking and entering. Also they took lessons at the same dance studio but at different periods of time. they wouldn't have been in the same class because of their ages. It's just odd that someone would go from failed kidnapping that escalated into murder to a failed kidnapping that let the girl remain alive. it was after JBR, if it was the same person, they'd be even more careful.
-I think DA Lace was forced to do that because of the Ramseys' remaining legal and political power. The PD and previous DA have all said it means nothing. We also know that the "unmatched DNA" does include Burke and Patsy's DNA and Patsy's clothing fibers were found on the tape. I think the family pushed for that because they knew this information (or the grand jury indictment) would come out eventually and wanted cover.
Also, do you have any other newer posts abt this case that I could review?
Thank you so much for taking the time to consider my questions and to provide thoughtful answers! You’re awesome! And quite timely too. Great work :-)
Wow, this is so impressive. I did not even know most of these details until today and have not researched this crime and yet I have been team BDI for a long time. Initially I suspected Patsy because of her coldness, but over time I realized it was likely the son and that they covered it up. I had no specifics as to why I thought this except that he likely had strong feelings about JBR getting so much attention. But now i see there was more to it. The whole thing is so sad and so angering. The rich get away with everything.
This was an excellent read. This case always intrigued me. I was 10 when JBR died and always thought how her parents behaved was strange. I noticed language they use often referring to her as that child or trying hard to actually cry when speaking about what happened. The Netflix doc is absolutely a setup to protect Burke for years to come. If I didn’t always end up in a rabbit hole looking at evidence every time I see something JBR related, they could have swayed me.
I agree that either Burke struck JB, and her parents did the rest to cover it up, or he struck, strangled and used the paintbrush and the parents protected him. I love that you touch on possible SA happening to Burke and JonBenet by someone in the family. I’ve thought the same, we automatically assume John, but I don’t rule out Patsy, especially to Burke. Or possibly both one way or another. Do you have any thoughts about North Fox Island, John’s grandfather supervising the airstrip? I know some people believe there could be a family connection with trafficking and child abuse that dates back.